Proposal | Using real-life countries/organizations

As AIN have most of its members residing on Earth, using one of the 200 over Earth countries will be unavoidable. It may not happen now, it may not happen at all, but what if one of those Government Agencies of a particular country feels offended by using their country's name just strictly for role-playing? This scenario is very unlikely, but there's a possibility.

Some AIN members have also express their displeasure of using real-life countries as part of our role-playing. However, some AIN members have also treated several real-life countries as a major part of their own country (e.g. Rafforsia with Singapore; Arcacia with Australia and New Zealand; etc.) Similarly, real-life organizations are unavoidable too (e.g. Rafforsia with ASEAN; United Nations; European Union; etc.)

Look at this post for further details: http://aoin.eu/debate-chamber-f131/proposal-using-real-life-countries-organizations-t1235-30.htm#8744

Therefore, in order to prevent major conflict with real-life, I have propose one simple yet widely acceptable solution: add "Sim" in front of any real-life Earth countries that will be use.

You might have seen the SimRepublic of Japan, or perhaps the SimRepublic of Australia. But that's too long. SimJapan or SimAustralis are shorter and easy to use.

Here are some example:
SimSingapore
United States of SimAmerica/SimUSA
North SimKorea
SimCalifornia
United SimNations/SimUN

Any further suggestions are welcome. Discussions are now open. Express your disapproval and the reason why also if you feel likewise.

First off ive never really liked people who use real countries not very fun that way

I don't have a problem at all using real life countries. It adds realism and, given that our countries are placed on the real world, with real world neighbours, it seems only natural that they will pop up as part of role-play.

Australia, New Zealand, New Caledonia and other Pacific nations, as well as the US and Canada have always featured in Arcacia's story, and always will.

The current part of the story involves our detention of Japanese whalers and their impending trial in the High Court. I make no apologies for this, and if Japan is offended by this, well, TOUGH. I'm constantly offended by their blatant disregard of international law and their repulsive actions in the Southern Ocean.

The idea that a real government would actually take action against the AIN in the real world is laughable.

Putting "Sim" in front of a countries name annoys me no end. I don't live in SimAustralia. I live in Australia. Arcacia does not neighbour SimAustralia. It neighbours Australia.

Also, there are a few real world countries being used in the Simlympics. If you look at the list of competing nations, you see very clearly Japan and New Zealand. Why should we be any different?

The use of real-world countries and organisations is not only unavoidable, but in many cases it is necessary.

Any more debate/suggestions?

If I may insert my two cents, it is not against the law to name or include real places for a role playing or fantasy purpose, as long as it is understood that it is fantasy and not real life. If this were not the case many books, or movies would not happen. Your fear is miss placed that a country, or business may come down on this site for including them. If you consider the billions of websites on the internet to police all of them would be impractical and to come down on a group of people for using the name of your country or business would be impractical because you would then have to sue everyone who uses the name or likeness of your country, or business... the lawsuits would get thrown out almost instantly.

On the note of the Japan and New Zealand in the Simlympics, I believe these are CJ's from some very unimaginative people not the likeness of the real countries.

haha way ahead of ya, aran! Notice how I added the "Sim"republic of Japan during a court case, as well as the "Sim" in Miss SimUniverse

jk. But yea I'm in favor of this idea. And I think that using names of an existing RW country is totally unimaginative, unless you are recreating that actual country.

Peter wrote: And I think that using names of an existing RW country is totally unimaginative

well yeah, but that's not what the fear was, the fear was that countires or business's might become upset. Which I believe is misplaced. Now I'm not a member so I know my vote doesn't count for anything but those are my two cents on the issue, there is nothing legal about using the US, Japan, Canada, etc. in your city journals and it's simply a mater of preference.

I'm not really fond of the idea, because it really complicates things. Plus, it really does throw my interest in particpating. Because I want the forum to be for imaginative countries. When we start using real world countries, then you have to include them at all times with other conflicts. Such as wars, economy, and situations that relate with your country.

I prefer we use Fictional Countries, it's what I thought this forum was created for.

From what you've said Ray, it is indeed a damn lot of work getting accurate facts of real-life countries of such countries are a part of your own country.

Although it is strongly not recommended, several AIN nations are strongly depended on such real-life countries and/or organizations for survival. Take Arcacia for example, it have a very strong relationship with Australia and New Zealand and are extremely dependent on them for military support (please correct me if I'm wrong).

Well here's a thing. If you want to create a county with ties with other real life nations. That is understandable. But when you address conflicts and include a real life nation. It makes it really difficult to keep up. Or as we say in aeronautics "A drag" You have to drag that real life nation along with imaginary affairs, which it isn't necessary.

Although:

- It's okay if you wish to use nationalities like Japanese, Russian, British, American

- If you wish to relate with a person from a real life country that's understandable.

- If you choose to create a history with ties to another nation. It's also understandable

But when you have to include a real life country to every affair in your nation. There has to be a limitation to it. Because it's a constant drag to keep up with the current affairs. Now Aran, I know you're a kid who follows a trend of current situations. I also acknowledge Dan's ties with New Zealand and Australia. But when we develop a fictional event. Real Life Countries and Organizations should stay out of it, Regardless.
We should only stick to surreal situations, but let's avoid the real world. That's what this forum was created for.

Also we should definitely stay away from real life organizations that affect the political world.

North Atlantic Treaty Organizations (NATO)
European Union (EU)
African Union (AU)
or any real life government unions

We definitely must stay out of them. The laws are totally different than the surreal laws of the this union.

However an exception should be made in other real life organizations:

- AIDS foundation
- GMHC Gay Mens' Health Crisis
- Civil Liberties
- Gun Owners Organizations
- Feed The Children Sponsor

It is just an example we may use. There shouldn't be any objection to it.

Another Organization that ( yes! you may not like it) can allowed to be mentioned in this forum

Criminal/Terroristic Organizations, because we do develop surreal-like crisis in our nations. Ranging from

- Terrorist Networks
- Secular Hate Groups; like Neo-Nazis (i hate them too)
- Street Gangs
- Mobs (Italian Mob, Russian Mob, Yakuza, Le Eme) don't like em either.

Another Organization you are always free to use:

Political Parties

Democrat
Republican
Libertarian
Labor
Conservative
Progressive
Freedom
or
Communist Parties

You are always free to use it. Because it defines the political system of your nation

BUT: We should not involve real names of the leaders of the real world. Especially in the current events. Let's please try to avoid it. That what kills the imaginative world of CJ unions. Too much real-life political involvement.

For example, if there was a terrorist attack in Tongolia. If any other nation wants to condemn the attacks. You really should bring up only your nation. Let's not go over-board like China, US, Australia, Russia, or France. It just lags on and lags on. Because fictional countries only want to participate. Not real life countries.
Especially when we involve a real life nation. I don't care how much you know the laws of that nation(s) or if that county fascinates you. It should stay out of conflict and some other fictional events. Espcially the Simlympics. (who the hell decided to do that anyway, some dork)

Damn it, I need a laywer!

anarchy0029 wrote: Espcially the Simlympics. (who the hell decided to do that anyway, some dork)

as pre mentioned the Simlympic deal is simply a few people who are not very imaginative in there country names. So this wasn't a design by the ISC.

Again if I may I think historically it's ok. In my case Perthshire has a huge historical relationship with the US, Japan and Russia (being near all 3) So I include the US, Russia, and Japan historically in my CJ but not really in modern times, I have Perthshire respond to real world events but I don't include the real world countries in things that happen in Perthshire.

Now... .if I also may interject.
-Under no circumstances is using a RL country, organization, or business illegal
-that being said I don't think the union should be able to police what should or should not be in a CJ... if you wish to add it than that should be your decision. If you wish to include sim before the real world organization that should be your decision and your decision alone... if the union as a whole gets involved with the content of a CJ it could seem as if the union is becoming too dictorial to perspective members. That's just my opinion on that

Dljrnfn2K, you got a point on that. However, it's not against the law, but it shouldn't be included in every event of the sim world.

My point is, even though this is a imaginary union with imaginary countries and most of our dealings will be with each other, there are times when use of real-world nations is unavoidable or necessary. We have chosen to place our nations in the context of a world map. We can't then just ignore that there are other (real) countries surrounding us.

Personally, I think it adds realism.

I also agree with Dljrfn2000 on this. The union can't dictate the content of CJs. The use of real countries, unions, organisations, or any other aspect of real-world politics is solely the choice of the individual. The extent of this usage is also entirely the choice of the individual. The use of "Sim" in front of the name is also the choice of the individual.

To forbid the use of real world ideas, or to restrict them, is in direct violation of article 11 of the Charter of Rights:

"The free communication of ideas and opinions is one of the most precious of the rights of humanity. Every citizen may, accordingly, speak, write, and print with freedom, but shall be responsible for such abuses of this freedom as shall be defined by law."

When it speaks of abuses of this freedom, it refers to slander. It refers to, essentially, name calling or other misconduct.

There is no place for censorship here.

True, but having a war with a real world country is kinda like taking candy from baby (exept for fiji, no one cares about them jk) but besides the whole 'war' thing, i think we can involve rw countries as much or little as we like. But really, does anyone know a laywer, 'cause how am i compeate with that^^^^. Really, y'all. And also, anarchy, could you please stop adressing some of the younger members of the union as "kids", because its starting to feel kinda digrading if you know what i mean.

Dan, this is your personal preference as well as mine. Hypertrophy does keep ties with the United States, Canada, Russia and Japan. But I bring up their names for history purposes. I just don't choose to let real life countries get involve in the fictional events. Even if they are in my back yard. It's totally unecessary and uninteresting.

But under article 11: Is this the AIN constitution? Can you also direct a link?

aleksfacco wrote: Really, y'all. And also, anarchy, could you please stop adressing some of the younger members of the union as "kids", because its starting to feel kinda digrading if you know what i mean.

Alright Lil' Man. I say that with everybody. Just an urban slang of mine and I can't help it.

:fyou:

Anarchy, it's in the thread about the charter of rights. I think its about to be adopted, as part of Summit III.

I agree with you, it is personal preference. I think we should leave it at that. You may find it uninteresting, I find it very interesting. I'm interested in how other members interact with the real world.

To dictate the content of CJs is, at the very least, unethical.

Charter of Rights is this corresponding with AIN Constitituion or Human Rights? Because what I'm veiwing it hasn't fully been taking affect.

And yet there is a difference:

The Charter of Rights is about the Human Rights Constitution, i do remember that. The Human Rights is about the laws of a peacekeeping union that also corresponds with SUTO. Kind of like NATO and UN. They both go hand and hand together.

The AIN Constitution from what I'm viewing is about members rights. Nothing regarding to Article 11. You confused it with Human Rights Constitution that you proposed. It is passed but this doesn't correspond directly with the AIN constiution.

However, it does somewhat state under article 6 it is available. But no specific information on infringes on what you expressed earlier. Although a debate is in full order but not yet enacted.

Semantics. Regardless of where it is, it's still a freedom of speech issue.

Even if there is/was nothing in the constitution, the right of a person to write what they like regarding their own country is inviolate.

With all due respect, it more sounds like violating your own ideas.

Um... no. Freedom of expression was not my idea. I just happen to agree with it wholeheartedly.

Dan, I'm not against it with freedom of expression, but I'm calling how I see it. Because the AIN constitution has not been ratified.

Until that constitution is ratified, nothing is yet law.

But for now it is a gray area.

Although, we should avoid it. I never saw creativity from using a real world nation or organization. But when used in a simulated event that we (as a whole union create) We need to avoid it from getting involve with ficitonal lives.

However, I want to debate it. But I'm looking to do a happy medium where we can all agree.

I agree with you on that point, that if it's an internal union event, then the real world should be left out.

However, when dealing with individual CJs, it's the right of the member to decide what is included and how it's included.