Standings

The teams will go into the tournament having been ranked, based on previous successes. Here are the final standings going into the tournament:

1. Escambia
2. Lisieux
3. Arcacia
4. Fornax
5. Hiigara
6. Petrova
7. Bob
8. Tongolia
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9. Holidia
10. Tirnreich
11. Lanaya
12. Corraile
13. Ascadylea
14. Dardajhan Rpublic
15. East Rockcoast
16. Hypertrophy
17. Lycanthia
18. Aleksania
19. Lower Columbia
20. Roanoke Island

i'd like to know how Arcacia got 19 points based on what you posted?

Yeah, not even make sens with your points, Lanaya is supposed to have 10 maximum.

I kind of find this insulting honestly. Cause we have rankings set for everything. But you just decided to ignore that? I honestly find these rankings bias. IF you think my are the aren't even close to being bias. Look at results. Its what ive based it off. Arcacia has barely been around I highly doubt you've won more than i ever have.

Well, there's a mistake, how may the Tirnreich has -2 points?

Yeah...Sorry but i dont approve of what you got going. Sorry. If your want to use this bias system Escambia drops out

Well Nate, there's a little problem with your system also, it's always the nations who's the most oldest that wins all the time (Admins+Matt). Well that's not really fair.

Blakeway read before you post. Its based off more than 1 thing. Its best on every single league that is involved in the SC4 world. If you wanna be good that PARTICIPATE and quit hiding and think just cause you do one thing you all a sudden rock. I had to build my nation up to what they are now. I didnt just get to say oh we rock! So we kick everyones butt. SLB oh boy did i suck right away. I barely won any games. Now my teams are finding themselves apon the top. There still things im not the best in. Thats fine. But base this standing is completely 100% rigged. I cant help it find my nations apon the top of the polls. Its cause i actually participate unlike you guys. Just like Tyler. Lisieux actually is in leagues. Better improving themselves. If you DONT get in leagues how can you expect you nation to be good. Its common knowledge. New nations aren't going to be good right off the bat. It doesn't take a genius to figure that one out. Look at the simlympics the older your nation the more points. So dont you dare say its unfair. Cause its not. its EXACTLY how the simlympics runs and always will.

Do I really need to explain this for the fourth time?

The rankings are based off the Simlympics and the AIN Winter Games ONLY.

Next year, the ranking will be based of the 2011 Winter Simlympics and 2011 AIN Winter games ONLY.

The rankings going into this tournament are based solely off the two tournaments immediately preceding it.

Nate, I find the insinuation of bias insulting.

But, if you would like a full audit of points, I will provide one. So far, only the Simlympics have been taken into account because I don't yet have the information available from the AIN Winter Games. Once that has finished, those points will be added and no doubt the standings will change.

You can read for yourself how the points are calculated, go to SimSports, go through the results from Skovveien and do the maths. It can't possibly be that hard to get your heads around.

Medals only matter to an extent - performance in the pool games is also taken into consideration and Arcacia did better than Escambia in that respect.

Escambia - 2 wins, 1 loss, GD+1
Arcacia - 2 wins, 1 tie, GD +4

Escambia:
Bronze medal = 8 points
2 wins (pool) = 6 points
GD+1 = 1 point
Qualifying = 1 point
TOTAL = 16 points

Arcacia
Won pool = 6 points
2 wins = 6 points
1 tie = 2 points
GD +4 = 4 points
Qualifying = 1 point
TOTAL = 19 points

So, there you have it. After the AIN Winter Games, a second lot of points will be awarded along the exact same lines as the ones from the Simlympics.

Blakeway - the reason Tiernreich is on -2 points is as follows:

Tiernreich - 3 losses, GD -7

Competing = 4 points
GD -7 = -7 points
Qualifying = 1 point
TOTAL = -2

The reason why these are based on the Simlympics and AIN Winter Games only is very simple. It has nothing to do with the SIIHF, nor the AINHL. Also, it means that those countries that haven't been around forever have a chance.

Nate, if you're gonna sit there and act like a baby who didn't get his bottle over the whole thing and then call "boycott" it's your loss. Escambia was in 3rd spot and, with only 3 points separating 1st from 3rd, there was a good chance you could improve on that with the results from the AIN Winter Games.

Do not accuse me of bias. I have done everything possible to make sure this system is mathematically fair.

This is a stand-alone tournament. They happen all the time in the real world and sometimes the initial rankings don't reflect a teams entire history because they're based off limited criteria.

I could careless about your math. Its the fact you neglect the AIN Rankings. which are for this sole purpose. And just case your curious how Arcacia did they didnt make a medal match. First round loss. 1-0. Im just saying solely basing something off 2 things isnt really fair. AIN Rankings are cause the base it off everything possible. And dont you dare call me a baby. Just cause your older gives you no right to call me names. So maybe you should grow up a bit there bub

Nate, if, during the Simlympics, Escambia had won another pool game and scored just 1 more goal, it would be ahead of Arcacia and we wouldn't be having this conversation because Escambia would be number 1 and you would be happy.

How is it not fair, exactly? Because basing it off a system where only teams that have been around for 2 or more years have any chance IS fair?

You say Arcacia lost in the AIN Games. That's fine. I would have liked to read about that in the Winter Games thread, but I suppose here is as good a place as any.

As I said FIVE TIMES, the rankings were bound to change after the AIN Winter Games. I could have waited until the end of the Games to post the rankings, but I wanted to be transparent. I guess that was my mistake. Perhaps I should have been secretive and not tell anyone how the rankings were calculated.

If you want to boycott, then I can't stop you. However, you could at least wait until the AIN Winter Games have concluded and I have calculated the final standings before you do so.

Because basing it off a system where only teams that have been around for 2 or more years have any chance IS fair?

If one of those you are referring to is me, I've been around one... just clearin that up... and nate joined simsports a couple months before me.

I've been around since Spring 2008. so for me 2 years

Look, I honestly did not intend for this to become an argument. I just wanted to create a fun tournament for the AIN, where every team had a decent chance of winning. I decided to base the initial rankings off the 2 previous tournaments, being the Simlympics and the AIN Winter Games.

These rankings won't even matter next year. For each annual tournament, the scores are reset before the Simlympics, except for the defending champion who will carry 10 points over to the next tournament, as well as 1 extra point for qualifying.

The idea was to make it dynamic. It would obviously change the rankings every year, so nations wouldn't have a stranglehold on the event and nations that had only been around for a few months had a fair go.

The fact that I have gone to so much trouble to make it fair, only to be accused of biased, is more than insulting - it's hurtful.

I really don't know what else I can say.

Now - if the AIN Winter Games are over, can someone please send me the pool results and the playoff/medal results so I can get on with it, please?

well obviously not everybody has a fair chance this way either... if 8th place is -2 points than what is 10th or 12th?.. If ya ask me nobody from 5th place down has a shot.

Oh, crimeny!

The reason 8th spot is -2 is because so far only 8 teams have been ranked.

When (if) I get the results from the AIN Winter Games, I'll figure those points in and THE STANDINGS WILL CHANGE.

When the qualification rounds have been completed THE STANDINGS WILL CHANGE AGAIN.

Once the team rankings have been completed, the points won't matter. They are only used to rank teams going into the tournament. They are not like PAS points.

I mean - it's all really very simple. It's perhaps too simple because everyone is reading too much into it.

Are people here allergic to simplicity?

I'm really tempted to call the whole thing off and never plan another event again. Really, I've had absolute jack of all this. It's really not worth the bother.

I thought; "Hmmm... this would be fun - they'll be up for this" But instead I get accusations of bias and a complete lack of understanding on something that is as plain as day.

I am a Masters student. I really don't have time to keep coming back here and answering the same questions over and over and over and over again until my fingers bleed.

So, I'm taking a stand from now on. This is just how it is. If you don't like it, you can choose not to participate and have absolutely 0 chance of winning.

I am at the end of my tether with this right now.

so then everybody has a 1 in 8 chance of winning? if theres at teams at the start anyway... If so then it's just totally random?

haha I would get negative points.

that's okay guys...I'll just have to slot more points in hockey than in ski jumping (:? next time....

Tyler - essentially how it works is that the points are only used to rank the teams going into the tournament. They don't work like PAS points. Teams in the top 8 will have an advantage. The in-game scoring system is somewhat random, but follows a logical progression and is designed to be both fair and realistic. It relies on dice and a coin flip. I have been fine tuning the system in the AHL to produce as realistic score lines as possible. You might notice that during the Origins Series, the scores were rather high. In the early rounds of the AHl and UHL seasons, they are rather low and there is a high level of shutouts. This has led to a final tweaking of the system which should produce the kinds of scores seen in real life. Within the top 8, teams ranked higher will have a slight advantage over the lower ranked teams, but this advantage is based on random chance and just being in, say, the top 3, is no guarantee of winning every game against teams ranked 4-8.

Here is how the in-game scoring works:

For each team, two dice are rolled at the same time. The lower number is that teams score, unless the other number is a 6, in which case the score is 0. However, if double 6 is rolled, the score is 6.

For teams in the top 8, the higher number is the score, unless the lower number is 1, in which case the score is 0. If double 1 is rolled, the score is 1. This only applies if a team in the top 8 is facing a team not in the top 8. If both teams are in the top 8, the lower number is taken.

If, after the dice have been rolled, a lower ranked team has defeated a higher ranked team, a coin is flipped. If it is heads, the score stands as is. If it is tails, the scores are reversed.

If the game is a tie, 1 die is rolled. If the result is a 1 or 2, the away team wins in overtime and 1 goal is added to their score. If the result is 5 or 6, the home team wins. If the result is 3 or 4, the tie stands.

In the event of a tie in a playoff game, if the score is still tied after the die roll I just mentioned, then it goes to a shootout. For each team, a coin is flipped 5 times, alternating between teams. Heads is a goal, tails is a miss.

So, in short, the points that are being assigned now are only used to rank the competing teams from 1 to 20. Once those rankings are finalised, the points don't matter and only the teams ranking or "seeding" matters.

Lib - Your points and hence ranking aren't final. I still need to factor in the AIN Winter Games data and run the qualifying rounds.

I understand it, and I also think it's a simple, good system. Especially for a majority of AIN nations who are new or don't really go on simsports or anything.

Ahh I see Dan... Sounds good

I've also decided to change the qualification round. Instead of one single game, teams that have not qualified will now play 3 games against other teams that have not yet qualified. Their opponents will be chosen at random.

There will be a cut-off line that will depend on how many open spots there are and only teams that finish above that line will qualify.

Teams that qualify will receive 1 point for qualifying, 3 points for each win, 2 for a tie and 1 point for each goal in their goal difference. Teams with a negative goal difference will have points deducted. The team that finished in first place will have been considered to have won the pool and receive 6 additional points.

The wild card will no longer be used.

The reason behind this is to give teams that have not yet qualified a chance of making into the top 8.

The only problem I see with that is that teams not in the top 8 are getting a chance for more points but if you've automatically qualified you can't get any more points. So if you haven't qualified you could pick up an additional 16 points... (1 for qualifying, 9 for winning 3 games, and 6 for winning the pool) While if you're already qualified you can't get anything.

While I see your point, the teams that haven't qualified would be at a distinct disadvantage otherwise. Teams that have qualified were able to rack up points during the Simlympics and AIN Winter Games. Teams that have not yet qualified did not participate in the Simlympics and did poorly in the AIN Winter Games.

This allows teams that go through the qualifying rounds to enter the tournament on a more equal footing.

BTW - Tyler, do you have the details from the AIN Winter Games? I can't really do anything until I get them.

Nate has them.