AIN v. Thomas Simpson

What did they do?

Tyler wrote:The High Court of AIN finds Thomas Simpson and Daniel Raffaele in violation of AIN Constitution for disloyalty by virtue of subversive behavior against the Alliance of Independent Nations Government.

Against the AIN Government? Well, what did they do?

The Grand Jury in the Case of AIN v. Thomas Simpson/Daniel Raffaele will be the following 7 by random selection:
Liberator444(Geoff), Peter, Aranho, Bruce, emgmod, K50 dude, Julien

Okay, fine by me, but is there a reason why I am the only Junior Member?

Direct evidence will be presented in the case. Any questions asked in this topics will not be answer on the public forum. Please pm Saathoff or Tyler for info. Not all questions can be answered as its a direct violation of privacy of the law.

Lets not forget that another direct violation of the law is setting up a major court case without giving any background information on why this is going on to the rest of the courtroom. Personally I feel that the high court is making a tyrant and unfair gesture by not announcing what is going on.

Good point. I apologize to everybody for neglecting that.

It has been brought to my attention that Daniel (Danspaceman) has mysteriously been changed into an admin for the last week. We have discovered evidence as to who has done this even going down to the exact time it happened. This knowingly happened and was attempted to be covered up. Therefore, Thomas and Daniel are being charged for disloyalty by virtue of subversive behavior against the government.

Ohhh.... hope that all will be ok

Tyler wrote:The Grand Jury in the Case of AIN v. Thomas Simpson/Daniel Raffaele will be the following 7 by random selection:
Liberator444(Geoff), Peter, Aranho, Bruce, emgmod, K50 Dude, Julien

Okay...I'm on my first jury.

Note everyone if im correct tyler said the jury was chosen at random. Just happens K50 is the only junior member selected

Whoa! This case is kind of important for AIN. I just hope AIN will be allright after this.
After all, I remain in the neutral place for this case.

this isn't a court case this is a COUP DE TAT.... this is undemocratic, illegal, a witch hunt and personal vendetta all rolled into ONE... We had elections.... this is so not fair... U didn't win, move on with it...

THIS WILL CREATE A SCHISM THAT THE AIN WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO MOVE ON FROM!

If this is to proceed it needs to be ALL out in the OPEN and FAIR... and needs to come from more then a gang of threee but from the majority of the union...

Ridiculous. Dissapoiting. Unecessary.

What I see here is lack of maturity and lack of trust among the members.

September came and brought a new "government" to the AIN and that did not please all of us.
First of all, there will always be different points of view. I see that the member Thomas Simpson ("Thomas"), managed to gain the trust and the friendship of many of the members of this union. I understand that on his point of view, after getting to know most current participants and its CJ's (I couldn't find a CJ without a constructive comment by Thomas in about 3 months) he felt that it was time to bring down some of the barriers that make members feel distant from each others. I know all he wanted to do was to approach the "low" and the "high" quality, with the conviction that the "high" quality would prevail over the CJ's needing improvements. It is self-noticeable that once the members manage to enter the AIN, (a process that Thomas wanted to make a lot more strict once he became an Administrator - don't forget that-) the CJ's in general had its quality increased in record times.

I know that all this is the result of 2 of his attempts to give more rights to Junior Members of this union. I also know that should not move as fast as it was moving. I am a Junior Member, even though I agree with Saathoff & Tyler, that yes, the Junior Members should be at least slightly below the Full Members, and "only the most dedicated members could turn into FMs." But the AIN has attracted many really "high quality" CJ's like for example, the Gansbaai Kingdoms, the Republic of Duwamish and the Republic of New Chandler. All of them were subimitted to a period of Junior Membership, what I suppose motivated our president Thomas to try to do something to get these kinds of members, - like the ones AIN needs to grow stronger and faster - to be totally involved on AIN life and events as a whole.

Once, according to my opinion, all the new government wanted to do was to bring new and interesting quality members to the AIN community, in no moment they took actions subversive to what the government was made for: to make things better and take care of what is already good. Also, they didn't fail on acomplishing this last topic in italics, because before such proposals were brought to AIN - that is: to give more rights to the JM -, they worried about increasing the standards of Junior Membership applications and the conduct of the Junior Applicants, a clear example of this was the Membership Reform, proposed and constantly brought to Skype meetings by Thomas and a few other members.

Maybe, he understood that not every Junior Members are "lamers" and recognized that they can actually help such an imponent union like AIN to get better, so giving them rights and representation was the way he figured out to bring this kind of "fresh air" to AIN. Unfortunately, we can't predict the quality of the members applying, or how active they will be once admitted, and for that reason we have the member checkpoints, an intelligent solution, its true.

To Junior Members, like me, we should not give total freedom, because yes, we got to keep the prestigy of the Full Membership and so justify the high standards also raised and reinvented by Thomas, but we must recognize that sometimes it is compelling to have to ask if we can or not vote as if the FM were our parents.

My message: AIN needs to give the option of some members to apply as Full Members after 1 week. The applicants that judge their CJ to be good enought to fullfil all of our high standards should have the option to join us as Full Members since the begining.
Better: People wanting to join us should just apply to join AIN, and the current Admins and Full Members should vote
|No|
|Yes, make him a Junior Member -instead of "yes with improvement"|
|Yes, make him a Full Member|
Then after having the chance to try to join us as Full Members, if the applicant only managed to be a Jr. Member, we should apply a minimal time of 2 weeks after he can give it another shot.

Why I am dissapointed:
Instead of gathering together and think of solutions and innovations for our current system, two of our most representative and competent members took the decision of bringing another two very important members of our community to court, taking the opportunity to regain the control over the union, lost on the last election. I see this as a desperate move made by the old government to keep the control of the Union and by so regaining their power to impose whatever ideas & projects they have on mind to the AIN.
There was no previous solid and constructive conversation in order to accept the most advantageous decision for AIN as a whole. Yes my friends, this actually can be seen as a Coup de Etat. The High Court of AIN should be activated only if all meetings and all conversations and debate failed to guarantee AIN future, what did not happen at all.

Thomas: You are have to move more slowly, but you are on the right direction, I know it.
Saathoff: Escambia is the only dictatorship on AIN. You got amazing and useful skills that can help AIN to develop, like that Website thing, but you got to be more democratic. I know you are worried about AIN's future, and this is very important to you as in no moment you made anything to prejudice us. But you got to tell what you know about other Unions and trust on our members. I know you would be able to save AIN if it get to COFR's situation, but as for now you got to let AIN walk alone. We can't depend on the founders for everything: your goal will only be hit if you let AIN develop on its own for a time and then recognize that it wasn't destroyed. That would be the proof of AIN's firmness.

Thomas is an example of member that can handle AIN, and it is as for now the only opportunity we have to check if AIN is already able to develop alone. Please let him try.

Daniel is an adult. He did nothing wrong and he knows a lot of science and civil rights. For me, it is obivious that he didn't do anything wrong. wasn't him "Dan, the Lawsuit man" on that AIN Movie?
He has proved hes involvement with AIN by hosting events (very nicely held by Arcacia, I recognize) and running for Vice-Presidence.

TALK GUYS, TALK and LISTEN to others. We don't need to ban or to bring anyone to Court every time his/her ideas are not the same as ours.

As of now I really hope this won't go through.

Honestly,

Spy9600

Thanks for your time and excuse my English.

You guys.. this has nothing to do with them being president or us not agreeing with there ideas.. If I felt that way I would have ran against them for President or VP. The fact is Thomas made Daniel and admin. Daniel has been an admin for 1 week and has even made changes on the admin panel. Thomas did this without consulting any other admins and didn't tell anybody after he did it either.

Personally I take offense to all of you calling this a witch hunt. It's not like I sit here all day contemplating on how I can get rid of the president..

This also isn't an attempt to "regain control of the government" as you have said. We clearly stated that there will be elections after the session IF Thomas and Dan are found guilty. Nate is the interim President because as his duties as President of the Department of Administration he is 3rd in command.

And you guys say we need to get together and discuss it before we do a court session. That's EXACTLY what a court session is. Getting together and discussing what happened then deciding what to do about it.

This is true. Every admin except the ones involved are contacted. There is no reason to attack a VERY democratic part of the court. Two of didnt do this? EVERY ADMIN had a say. Me, Tyler, Peter, Matt, Kevin, Geoff. So dont you dare question us. I take major offense to your attacks at us. Im disappointed members would do this to each other. This process is very democratic were going to court with a jury for a very good reason. If your seriously think a government should hide things then so be it. Were doing what our job is...to keep this union alive and in check. If you dont agree. I personal would say i might quesiton living. Im not in a union of lies like what has gone on. Im for the union ive been in for around 2 years! AIN has run just fine. And now you question and overthrow? Are you serious? This is clearly act of bias towards me and tyler and peter. Every admin has agreed this needs court. Were not trying to get rid of these guys. Personally I love Thomas and Daniel. There very very good city journalists. My job is just to keep us alive. I don't wanna be the next COFR. If dont agree that keeping the government from lieing to you isnt good. Then i dont know why this union is still alive. We've done since day 1! No problems of secrecy towards the members. When your vice-president and president directly don't tell anyone that he added someone to the admins with no knowledge of a single member except the one he added. I find that a HUGE problem.

The admins have talked since Monday/Tuesday about this. Today we came to a conclusion that a court session would be best to see what really happened. Remember the jury doesn't have to agree with the charges. Im pretty sure thats democratic. I find it sad you question us on that. Yet we've been talking for the week about weather court was a good idea. We debated and debated and this is what it came too. Im sorry you don't agree. Im personally happy you werent selected to the jury by random selection cause you two are CLEARLY BIAS.

Im done with my ranting. If this cont. i will be locking the thread.


Court Session Begins Saturday.

Tyler wrote:
This also isn't an attempt to "regain control of the government" as you have said.

IMO, If this isnt a attempt to regain control of the government, then the temporary president an VP should be chosen randomly to active members.

976: In the U.S., if the President cannot serve, the Vice President steps up. Then the top secretary/department head (Nate, Dept. of Admin.) steps up...and so on. AIN is based on that model of line of succession.

Just to say what I think, I think Spy9600 and Bonythonboy are a bit confused. It seems they (NOT ME) are thinking that if the AIN (which isn't the AIN, its more than not the AIN admin panel) "wins" the case, Thomas and Daniel will be impeached, and you and Tyler will become president, making Nate seem like someone desperate for power and can't face a loss. Although I don't know what they think. Maybe you should clarify so we DON'T turn into another COFR?

Saathoff wrote:When your vice-president and president directly don't tell anyone that he added someone to the admins with no knowledge of a single member except the one he added. I find that a HUGE problem

Per the constitution (section 3.0), why wouldn't this happen? He would end up an admin eventually.... Thats the only place I, personally, am lost.

Thanks.

K50 please pm us about questions. Ill answer this one here to clearify for people. The Vice-President and President ARE NOT REQUIRED to be admins.

Saathoff wrote:The Vice-President and President ARE NOT REQUIRED to be admins.

All I wanted to know.

Also...

Just to say what I think, I think Spy9600 and Bonythonboy are a bit confused. It seems they (NOT ME) are thinking that if the AIN (which isn't the AIN, its more than not the AIN admin panel) "wins" the case, Thomas and Daniel will be impeached, and you and Tyler will become president, making Nate seem like someone desperate for power and can't face a loss. Although I don't know what they think. Maybe you should clarify so we DON'T turn into another COFR?

Why im i being attacked? Im only the prosceutor cause im President of the Department of Administration? Not cause i want to be president. Im fine i lost the presidential race. i like any position in AIN. Even if i didnt get one. I would have been fine. So dont attack me for that. Cause thats not what im thinking. Plus say they do get impeached by law were suppose to have open elections.

@ bruce: according to AIN Constitution:

3.4 - If
a government leader
resigns or is fired will be
replace within 1-2
weeks by the a union
vote for a new leader for
that position

Yea.. the constitution says that Head of Department of Administration is 3rd in command.. which is nate.. After the case IF they are found guilty we will have elections to find the new president and vice president. It doesn't get any more democratic than that.

Saathoff wrote:Also...

Just to say what I think, I think Spy9600 and Bonythonboy are a bit confused. It seems they (NOT ME) are thinking that if the AIN (which isn't the AIN, its more than not the AIN admin panel) "wins" the case, Thomas and Daniel will be impeached, and you and Tyler will become president, making Nate seem like someone desperate for power and can't face a loss. Although I don't know what they think. Maybe you should clarify so we DON'T turn into another COFR?

Why im i being attacked? Im only the prosceutor cause im President of the Department of Administration? Not cause i want to be president. Im fine i lost the presidential race. i like any position in AIN. Even if i didnt get one. I would have been fine. So dont attack me for that. Cause thats not what im thinking. Plus say they do get impeached by law were suppose to have open elections.

Let me calmly say that I didn't direct that toward you, I think you overlooked where I said they wanted clarification, because they seemed confused by something which wasn't that much of a big deal.

I wrote this in bold for a reason, let me reiterate...

K50 Dude wrote:It seems they (NOT ME) are thinking that

EDIT: Tyler, thanks for clarifying.

I understand. But i personally disgusted with members attacking me for doing what my job inclines me to do. Sorry im doing my job? Thought thats what the government was suppose to do. Im not mad at you K50. Sorry if i seemed like that. But im mad at people blamming me for this court session

Thanks Tyler for the explanation.

No prob ya'll

I will give one final summary:
Nate discovered that Thomas made Daniel an admin without anybody else content. They are being tried because of this. IF they are found guilty, and the sentence is an impeachment, then we will have elections 1 WEEK after the sentence is handed down. I am Judge, Nate is prosecutor, Thomas and Dan are defense. This isn't undemocratic as they are being given a fair trial and some members on the jury have even expressed their dislike for what is happening. Nate is only President until they are proven innocent or we elect new officials 1 week afterwards.

I hope that clears everything up