Day 17 - 18

Introduction

The Union Constitution is one of the most important document of AIN. Once finished, it will be evaluated and ratified by all the current union members. The constitution will serve as a guideline and rulebook for the union.

This discussion only pertains to the sixth article of the AIN Constitution. Here is the current excerpt:

"

• 6.1 - Universal Declaration of Human Rights protects all AIN Nations citizens of all races
  
• 6.2 - Everyone has the right to life & liberty
  
• 6.3 - All people are entitled to all rights set forth in this declaration
  
  
• 6.4 - No one shall be held in slavery
  
  
• 6.5 - No one shall be subject to torture
  
  
• 6.6 - All people are equal before the law
  
  
• 6.7 - All people have the right to own property
  
  
• 6.8 - All people have the right to nationality
  
  
• 6.9 - All people have the right of Free of Speech
  
  
• 6.10 - All people have the right to work & leisure
  
• 6.11 - No one shall be executed under law in the following terms
  
• 6.11.1 - Death by Firing Squad
  
• 6.11.2 - Death by Hanging
  
• 6.11.3 - Death by Electrocution
  
• 6.11.4 - Death by any other means of torture
  
  
• 6.12 - Execution may be done under the following terms
  
• 6.12.1 - Death by Lethal Injection
  
• 6.12.2 - Death by any other term of non-torture
  
• 6.13 - The AIN Court can not hand down any death sentence
  
• 6.13.1 - Any AIN National court may hand down a death sentence if it follows the above laws
  
  

"

Source: Click Here.

Discussion Questions

1. Do you agree with all of the above?

2. Should there be anything added?

3. Should there be anything removed?

4. What are your comments, suggestions, concerns about the excerpt above?

1. Do you agree with all of the above?
Yes.

2. Should there be anything added?
No.

3. Should there be anything removed?
No.

4. What are your comments, suggestions, concerns about the excerpt above?
None.

PS: That's Mount Slater in the picture, not Westfall.

1. Do you agree with all of the above?
Yes
2. Should there be anything added?
No
3. Should there be anything removed?
Death by hanging; It really isn't a form of torture, so long as it's made sure to initiate death instantly.
4. What are your comments, suggestions, concerns about the excerpt above?
Just wondering if Freedom of Speech is recognized by countries ran by totalitarian and/or communist governments.

Liberator - Death by hanging most certainly IS torture.

It is NOT a form of torture, DAN!!

Explain how being hung by your neck so that it breaks, or you are slowly strangled, or you are decapitated is not torture?

Well Aleks your wrong. Hate to break it to ya. But there is just so such thing as instant death....

Ok, no disrespect, but who the he/\ are you to tell me what tourcher is. Yah, I'm younger then you, but I have opinions, and I plan to stick by them

okay... there is no possible way that hanging isn't torture... aleks look up the definition of torture and then tell us if you still think it isn't..

Excuse me Aleks? Show some respect im sick of your childish complaining. He/\ is no different from hell. Grow up. Look my statement is based off true fact. Go ahead believe what you want i never said to change. And who the hell am i to tell what torture is? Im Nate Saathoff thats who the hell i am. I got just as much right to tell as you as the next guy. And you got the right to say your gunna stick my your opinion. Thats fine. But seriously show respect please

Meaning Of Torture:

• anguish: extreme mental distress
  
• unbearable physical pain
  
• agony: intense feelings of suffering; acute mental or physical pain; "an agony of doubt"; "the torments of the damned"
  
• torment: torment emotionally or mentally
  

Okay, seriously. Calm down everyone.

Aleks, the definition of torture is any pain and suffering inflicted by one person on another. Most, if not all methods of execution fall under this definition. Also, opinion isn't the same as fact. Just believing something doesn't make it true.

Ad hominem attack is not a valid standpoint in any argument and does nothing for your position, so let's keep it civil. And that is directed at both sides of the argument.

im not worried about the argument. Im sick of the no respect. Yes Aleks has the right to no agree. But going out saying "who the hell do you think you are" thats disrespectful in many ways. Look, im just watching out for you Aleks. You got banned once for swearing on the forums. Constantly getting p/oed like this isn't any better. Just calm down. Respect peoples right to a disagreement.

I rescind my statement on hanging not being torture.

I think this is a good example on how NOT to argue. The only way to argue is to present evidence and then allow the other side to examine and rebut. People should not be afraid to concede a point. Remember, you're only wrong until you know you're wrong, and then you're right.

I think this is good a time as any to introduce you the concept of critical thinking. This is essentially the scientific method applied to arguments. I would urge everyone to visit this website and learn how to construct thoughtful arguments that avoid logical fallacies.

Again this isnt about the argument.... Your not listening Dan.. Its about his disrespect he's showing

Actually, I am listening and the disrespect is in itself a logical fallacy. It is argumentum ad baculum (appeal to force), ad hominem (personal attack) and a subjectivist fallacy relying on argumentum ad populum (appeal to popular opinion).

Your response, whilst heated, did not contain logical fallacies. You rebuked his claim that you were in no position to speak on the subject by reminding him that you were indeed entitled to speak. You then provided evidence in the form of a concise definition, meeting the original challenge.

Sorry for all the Latin.

okay then? Ill agree to disagree with your confusing latin

Wait. You're agreeing to disagree with me agreeing with you?

its latin dude i cant understand hahaha i didnt understand. But i take back my comment

LOL I put the translation in brackets. ::

I probably could have worded it better. I meant that HIS disrespect of you was logically fallacious, not your perception of it and your consequent response.

ah haha okay

...my brain hurts.

BACK ON TOPIC

1. Do you agree with all of the above? Yes

2. Should there be anything added? No

3. Should there be anything removed? No

4. What are your comments, suggestions, concerns about the excerpt above? Nothing

1. Do you agree with all of the above?
Yes.

2. Should there be anything added?
No.

3. Should there be anything removed?
Personally I think that Firing Squad should be allowed, as that's as quick a death as lethal injection. And they both have physiological effects in the lead up anyway. But I don't mind it not being allowed, if that is what other people think.

4. What are your comments, suggestions, concerns about the excerpt above?
Just like above, personally I think Firing Squad should be legal for nations themselves to decide. But I don't mind really.